EPC Level 4 & Level 5 - SBEM & DSM

[RossThompson87]

Hi,

Does anyone have any experience using DSM for Level 4 EPCs?

Is this acceptable or does SBEM need to be used?

If DSM is used does it make the building a level 5? Or is it still a level 4 based on its complexity?

Ross

[Complex Potential]

Hi Ross

DSM can be used for level 3, 4 or 5 but SBEM can only be used for level 3 and 4. Using DSM does not make a level 4 into a level 5.

I use DSM for all my EPCs as I find it far more flexible and easily interrogated than SBEM.

Hope this helps.

CP

[PCully]

Building Details tab of Building and System Data allows you to set Project Complexity and when using ApacheSim DSM you have option to set as Level 3, 4 or 5

Phil

[RossThompson87]

Hi thanks for the replies.

I completely agree with them all.

'Complex Potential' do you know of any sources to support your statements?

The reason for starting this thread, was due to our accreditation body rejecting Level 4 EPCs produced with DSM!

I understand the auditing requirements relate to the calculation method used, however the EPC conventions are based on building complexity.

Ross

[ZapBran]

I'll take a stab in that dark that the accreditation body starts with an "S"... and so does the word I use to describe them.
Both "CIBSE" and "Sterling Accreditation" seem like far more professional outfits to me.
TAS, IES and Bentley are all fine for DSM EPCs at all the levels. There's nothing in the approved docs or NCM guide that says SBEM MUST be used for 3 & 4 that I can find and the gov.uk approved list says nothing about limiting DSM to level 5 (which is frankly a ridiculous suggestion by your overlords).

I think DesignBuilder don't use the Energyplus engine to do DSM for PartL/EPC and are only 3 & 4 with SBEM but I might be wrong.

[Complex Potential]

ZapBran said it fine.

I recently went on the CIBSE LCC 2 day course and this exact question came up. The trainer was very clear and agreed with what Zap and I have said.

I would challenge your accrediting body to show you where in the guidance documents it says DSM cannot be used for Level 4 and then, when they fail, suggest they re-read them in full, carefully this time.

[Complex Potential]

Random thought.

Zap, I'm confused by your avatar. I was expecting it to be something like this...

[ZapBran]

ha ha - I used to have a zapp brannigan image there but time and tide wait for no man and I feel more like a dude... playing a dude... playin' another dude!

[JohnLloyd]

Personally, i think Zap should make a return.

But anyhow...CIBSE are now also insisting that all DSM assessments are set as 'Level 5', irrespective of whether the building is actually Level 3 or 4.

It's to do with the fee they can change you for lodging a Level 5 EPC; it's significantly higher. The reason being that it takes them considerably longer to check a DSM model than an SBEM model and they therefore want the Level 5 fee on any DSM model.

[ZapBran]

Really????

I guess I can see their logic... but ouch!