IES-VE User Forum

In a concrete building how do you model the columns and the beams which are adjacent to the external brick wall? Modeling a wall and then adding windows with applied concrete material makes things a bit complicated especially in a large building.

On the other hand is it so important to model those elements if the U value is close to the brick wall.
I mean if I set the wall with an average U value taking in consideration the U value of the insulated external columns and beams will that be a proper approach for the simulation proccess.

Also how do you model a column in the middle of a room? Should this column be modeled in order for its thermal mass to be considered during sumulation or this is just an infitesimal difference at the final results..?

External columns should be included if they are adding additional self shading to a building, but you can simply build them as "rooms" and then set them to be local shades within their properties. In terms of trying to account for them in terms of u values and additional thermal mass, most of the time it is not worth it.

If you have a room with many internal columns and you think they will be fundamental to the room's internal conditions then it may be worth attempting to include them, but 99% of the time you can leave them out as a justifiable simplification.

Thank you for your reply but propably I wasn't clear enough.

I am talking about a simple concrete building with brick walls. We have concrete columns for example on the corners and beams 45cm below the slab. The rest is brick walls. Naturally the columns and the beams would be modeled as windows with concrete and EPS materials assigned. But is there any other way because for a complex building this is really complicated

As a general rule, trying to model the complexities of the individual structural elements should be avoided if at all possible. Very rarely would that not be considered an acceptable simplification. Personally I would attempt to create an "averaged" construction type that is representative without going to the nth degree.

We are always walking the line between over complicating and over simplifying models, and it is sometimes a narrow line indeed.

Hi All,

Whilst trying to capture the thermal mass of internal columns (fairfaced concrete), what is the best way of doing this?

My guess would be that you can draw them as individual rooms within a bigger room, and assign them as Adjacent Building. However, as the adjacency will be taken as adiabatic, how can one guarantee that the thermal mass is captured?

Best
Ioannis