Is there someone have simulated double skins facade in VE, I've tried but the result is not good as expected, it might be wrong way.
Is there some has experiences with this kind of simulation ?
Double Skins Facade
Re: Double Skins Facade
Got a simple FAQ on this ages ago. I'm not completely convinced and maybe IES have some newer guidance but at least this is a kind of answer for you...
There are two methods to creating this type of façade.
1: The first is to model the façade in three sections.
· A block at the back.
· louvers and then
· another block at the front.
2: The other method would be to draw the façade as one zone and assign the louvers in the apache
construction database.
Method 1 allows you to see the results, but method 2 dose not. It would be taken into account in the
calculations.
Zap
There are two methods to creating this type of façade.
1: The first is to model the façade in three sections.
· A block at the back.
· louvers and then
· another block at the front.
2: The other method would be to draw the façade as one zone and assign the louvers in the apache
construction database.
Method 1 allows you to see the results, but method 2 dose not. It would be taken into account in the
calculations.
Zap
Re: Double Skins Facade
Zap, huntervu,
There is some help on modeling a DSF in Chapter 7 of "MacroFloCalculationMethods.pdf". You will need to have multiple levels in the DSF in order to simulate the buoyancy phenomenon driving the flow inside the DSF. You can have one or even two levels per floor of DSF; in other words, if your DSF is continuous and is 5 floors high, with 4 meters floor-to-floor height, you can have the elements either 4 meters high (but not more) or even 2 meters high. If the DSF is quite wide you can split it along its width as well.
I should stress, however, that modeling a double-skin façade is tricky! You will need to calculate MacroFlo internal openings as per the IES guidance, but the most critical aspect will be the wind pressure coefficients, especially if the DSF is full-height across multiple floors and/or if the DSF is used to naturally ventilate a building and/or if the building shape deviates significantly from a rectangular prism. You simply cannot rely on the standard MacroFlo wind pressure coefficients, you will need to go to either CFD or wind tunnel tests to calculate them.
This is the part where the engineer needs to know that just because he can draw it in ModelIt doesn't mean that the model will be an accurate representation of the building physics. This isn't meant to talk down to anyone, I just want to stress that you need to tread carefully, because you'll have your name on it and it isn't straightforward.
There is some help on modeling a DSF in Chapter 7 of "MacroFloCalculationMethods.pdf". You will need to have multiple levels in the DSF in order to simulate the buoyancy phenomenon driving the flow inside the DSF. You can have one or even two levels per floor of DSF; in other words, if your DSF is continuous and is 5 floors high, with 4 meters floor-to-floor height, you can have the elements either 4 meters high (but not more) or even 2 meters high. If the DSF is quite wide you can split it along its width as well.
I should stress, however, that modeling a double-skin façade is tricky! You will need to calculate MacroFlo internal openings as per the IES guidance, but the most critical aspect will be the wind pressure coefficients, especially if the DSF is full-height across multiple floors and/or if the DSF is used to naturally ventilate a building and/or if the building shape deviates significantly from a rectangular prism. You simply cannot rely on the standard MacroFlo wind pressure coefficients, you will need to go to either CFD or wind tunnel tests to calculate them.
This is the part where the engineer needs to know that just because he can draw it in ModelIt doesn't mean that the model will be an accurate representation of the building physics. This isn't meant to talk down to anyone, I just want to stress that you need to tread carefully, because you'll have your name on it and it isn't straightforward.
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huntervu28
- VE Graduate
- Posts: 68
- Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:56 am
Re: Double Skins Facade
Thanks JosephG.
How to download "MacroFloCalculationMethods.pdf" please.
How to download "MacroFloCalculationMethods.pdf" please.
Re: Double Skins Facade
Huntervu,
All the <VE> user guides and calculation methods can be downloaded from the <VE>. Click help >> User Guides to see an index of the different user guides sorted by application category.
Click on any link to download the pdf. I'd urge anyone to use these user guides as we are constantly working to improve them and they should be a great resource when using <VE>
Under Thermal >> Reference you will find the link for MacroFlo Calculation Methods
Phil
All the <VE> user guides and calculation methods can be downloaded from the <VE>. Click help >> User Guides to see an index of the different user guides sorted by application category.
Click on any link to download the pdf. I'd urge anyone to use these user guides as we are constantly working to improve them and they should be a great resource when using <VE>
Under Thermal >> Reference you will find the link for MacroFlo Calculation Methods
Phil
IES Worldwide Technical Support
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Mark_Benini
- VE Newbie
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:22 pm
Re: Double Skins Facade
Hello!
I'm currently trying to find solution how to simulate the behaviour and influence of double skin facade on total energy consumption. I 'm not sure whether I have understood ZapBran clearly, but I guess you have proposed as a solution No.2 to create a new zone that would represent outside glass wall and I'm pretty sure I'll have different results to a simulation without that zone, but how to 'explain' to the program that is not the outside air that is in contact with the external wall of the building, but the air that has been heated in certain degree depending on the outside air temperature. Do I have to perform MacroFlo simulation before even entering ApacheSim module if I want my model to perform as close as possible to a real life.
Best regards,
Marko
I'm currently trying to find solution how to simulate the behaviour and influence of double skin facade on total energy consumption. I 'm not sure whether I have understood ZapBran clearly, but I guess you have proposed as a solution No.2 to create a new zone that would represent outside glass wall and I'm pretty sure I'll have different results to a simulation without that zone, but how to 'explain' to the program that is not the outside air that is in contact with the external wall of the building, but the air that has been heated in certain degree depending on the outside air temperature. Do I have to perform MacroFlo simulation before even entering ApacheSim module if I want my model to perform as close as possible to a real life.
Best regards,
Marko